Did Vatican II Save the Church?

By Chalcedon of All Along the Watchtower.

The question which poses the title of this post was posed back in August by a blog I have, alas, only recently become aware of Fully Christian: the random musings of a Catholic in the Ozarks. I have been to the Ozarks, which may have been what attracted me to the title, but it is the content of it which has made me stay. The author, Shane Schaetzel passed through a number of Protestant denominations (including, interestingly, Bosco’s favourite, Calvary Chapel) before coming to the Catholic Church via Anglicanism. It is interesting that he came in via the American Ordinariate of St Peter, which may well explain why I find his approach so familiar; there was no Ordinariate when I converted, but in many ways it is my spiritual home. In a blog post from last August, Shane argues the case for seeing the Second Vatican Council as helping save the Church. Before anyone here has apoplexy, I recommend they read the full piece, which is very thoughtful and well-documented.

Read more via Did Vatican II save the Church? | All Along the Watchtower


  1. Thanks for sharing this Philip. It is hard to make a decision such as this when one has nothing to compare it to, as I came in under V11. As I see where it is heading, just since I did come into it, I don’t think it did.

    I have said, “There is something so different about those under Vatican 1.” Their understanding of Mass, Church teachings and the like run so deep in them. Their dedication to things such as helping the poor, praying the Rosary, attending daily Mass, etc… I mean they just do it, no matter the inconvenience or time required of them to do so.

    I think with Vatican 11, that is what is missing.

    I do not know, they may have saved the “Church,” but boy did Vatican 11 ever miss it with those coming in under them??? So in saying that I have to concur in one way maybe yes, and in the other, no way! God Bless, SR


    1. The issue Steve is that to say the decline of the Church because of Vatican II is a positive claim. You have to proof it. As all Christian denominations were robust prior to the Cultural revolution, to say that the Catholic Church’s decline is a result of the Vatican II is nothing more than a correlation fallacy.

      It’s tiresome to hear, “The Church is in decline, it’s happened after Vatican II; therefore, it must be because of Vatican II.

      Ahhh no, that’s just weak logic.


    2. One of the comments that Chalcedon received no challenge is when he indicated that he believes there to be no heresy in Vatican II, but would love to hear someone could present some, so by all means Steve, show me the heresy in the documents.


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